This little piece of propoganda was produced to distance the Independent's
concerns from those of the "Anabaptists." It came forth during
a tumultuous time in England when non-conforming Independents were vying
for respectablility and legitimacy. The work is written as though presented
by the Anabpatists to the world when in reality it is designed to turn the
world against them. The writer all but accuses the "anabaptists"
of condoning adultery while he himself bears false witness. It is amazing
what religious fervor can justify and drive one to do.
In the late twentieth century, Reformed Baptists meet with the same sort
of mudslinging from a minority of their cousins from the larger Westminster
Family. What is needed is a greater understanding of what unites confessionally
Reformed Christians within the Westminster family of confessions is greater
than what divides. Theological unanimity among the Westminster Confession
of Faith, the Savoy Declaration and the 1689 London Baptist Confession should
be the focus rather than the few, though not insignificant, issues of diversity.
It takes a lot of work to understand and empathize, yet some Christians
today would rather undermine and criticize.
Let us all purpose to learn to speak the truth in love and to let all of
our conversation to be seasoned with salt. Conversely, let us put away all
vain disputing for disputing sake. There is a godly way to engage those
with whom we differ--a way unto edification as we submit to a greater authority--and
there is an ungodly way manifesting the self-centeredness of our flesh.
One way brings glory to God, the other exhaltation to the pride of man.
Respectfully,
Mike Renihan
Question. What is your name?
Answer. Anabaptist
Q. Who gave you that name?
A. The priestly Fathers, and learned schollers of the world, who study profane
tongues of Greeke and Latine, and still retaine the superstitious Ceremony
of the Hebrew, and use all languages of the beast.
Q. Why are you called Anabaptists?
A. Because we went naked into the pure water, and were dipped in the holy
streames, where we denied our bodies (from the corruption that was before
upon us) in the presence of the Brethren, and Sisters of the Congregation.
Q. Why was the Congregation present at that time?
A. To be witnesses of the promises which the Dippers then caused me to make.
Q. What were the promises that were made between you and the congregation?
A. First, that I should forsake all the learned, and renounce the wise and
men of understanding, to follow the Communion of Fooles, and simple people,
and that all things may be common among us.
Secondly, that I should beleeve a sister, and take her word, and she mine,
without the abominable ceremony of Marriage.
Thirdly, that I should keep the secrets of all the Brethren, and Sisters,
and walke in the same all the daies of my life.
Q. Doest thou not think that thou art bound to all that thou hast promised?
A. Yes truly, and (had I nothing else to bind me) it is tye enough to keep
the favours of our loving company.
Q. Which is the way to keep still in favour with them?
A. To be constant (against all reason) in the maintenance and defence of
their opinions.
Q. What be the opinions of the Anabaptists?
A. The Anabaptists are of opinion that they may do what they will if conscience
moves them to do it, and they are of the opinion that infants are not
fit to be baptised, nor received into the Communion and brotherly fellowship,
till they be of bigness with to accompany with: and that men and women have
no souls more than their lifeblood. Also that what the conscience approves
of, cannot be ill, and that all men and women who are not of this minde,
are the prophane of the world, who have not any power at all to command
us to any thing against our consciences.
Q. Are all Independents of your opinion?
A. No, none but only Anabaptists.
Q. Why, are not you Independents?
A. Yes, but Independents differ in judgement.
Q. What is the main thing that you and Independents differ in?
A. We differ very much from them, for though you call them Independents
(a name too honourable for them, yet) they are none, for they do allow of
lawes, and orders, and blacke-coats, and prophane learning, and superstitious
preaching in the Pulpits, and many such things the Independents approve
of, but we dare not allow of any such things.
Q. If you cast off all order, by what Discipline do you walke?
A. Discipline! do you talke to us of Discipline? what doe you thinke we
cannot walke without Discipline: alas! alas! we have a liberty (which the rest of the
world are ignorant of) there is never a one of us but many follow what Discipline
he thinks in his own conscience is best and thats a pleasant Discipline.
Q. How can you agree together, and continue your meeting, without some manner
of Order, or Discipline, to do it by?
A. Why, let me tell you, there is so much correspondency in affection among
us, that all the Brethren, and Sisters, will agree, they are resolved upon
that, so soon as they are made Anabaptists. After which they will not in
any thing tending to the further kindling of love of one another.
Q. What Customes have you in your meetings? have you no lawes?
A. Customes, oh see upon them, they are Popish, we hate the very name of
superstitious Customes and lawes are a burden that we cannot beare.
Q. What thou is the rule by which you walke?
A. We are a free-borne people, and have priviledges above all rule.
Q. How many priviledges have you?
A. Ten.
Q. Which they be?
A. 1. That all goods, husband, wife, and all things whatsoever any of the
Congregation have is in common to all.
2. That we are free from bowing down under the yoke of mans Law and Rule,
and all obedience, and subjection whatsoever.
3. That wee are free from all oaths and covenants, either with King, Parliament,
or People, so we keep promise amongst ourselves.
4. We are priviledged from the burden of the Sabbath, and are not strict
in the observing of it, everie man is left to himselfe, to keep it, or not
to keep it, as he will himselfe.
5. Wee give no honour, nor respect to one more than to another; but are
(without all deference of persons) hale fellow, well met, when we are together.
6. Wee are free from blood-shed, and will not kill, no not a Lowse; nor
do we hold it fit that any should bee punished for his infirmities.
7. No man is to lye with his brothers wife, whilst her husband is in presence,
except he be fast asleep, or dead drunk.
8. Whosoever desires to live without taking paines, to get his living by
his trade and calling, hee may go from house to house, to be releeved with
all that he can get.
9. None of the fellowship dare presume to disclose the secrets of our Conventicles
to the profane, lest the world render us more odius than they do already.
10. None of the Fellowship is to keep his house, his table, his wife, his
servant, his estate, or any thing he hath, for himselfe; but is to let any
member of the Congregation partake of all good things with him in common.
Q. What do you make of these priviledges?
A. Wee have two special benefits by them; first, in having a share in the
Brethrens goods; and secondly, in having a right in the Sisters affections.
Q. How do you get to share with the brethren in their goods?
A. Wee go to the Pastour, and he procures any thing for us that we want.
Q. In what way do you addresse your selves to the Sisters?
A. Wee put off our hats, and make them a leg, look devoutly upon them smiling,
with our sparkling eyes, enough to enamour a Lady.
Q. Who are your Preachers, and what are they?
A. There are divers: viz. Mr. Patient, an honest Glover; Mr. Griffin, a
reverend Taylor; Mr. Knowles, a learned Scholler; Mr. Spilsbey,
a renowned Cobler; Mr. Barber, a Button-maker, and diverse others, most
gallant Teachers, well grounded in their opinions.
Q. Where are your places of meeting?
A. We have many places, and are glad when we can meet quietly in any of
them.
Q. But have you not some jovial meetings, where you use to be merrie sometimes?
A. Yes, that we have.
Q. Where is that?
A. At Westminster.
Q. Where there?
A. We have met at several places; wee met often at a great house in the
new Palace by Westminster-Hall; but when wee asked the name of the place,
they said it was Hell; O then we hated that profane place, and would never
come in it after: and they say there is a place called Heaven in the Old
Palace; but wee could never find that place out, and so wee dined since
at Adam and Eve.
Q. What had you to dinner?
A. Thus is the List of our Messe:
1. Imprimis. The mumping Crust of a leafe botled with a Calves head and
Bacon.
2. Item. The neck of a young Coney boyled to a jelly.
3. Item. The shoulder of a grave, long-bearded Goat, stewed between two dishes, stuffed with Cock's combs, and larded
with Goose grease.
4. Item. The brest of a fat Capon well soaked in white broth, stuffed with
Dasies and Cowslips.
5. Item. A loyne of young Mutton well carbonado'd, with a plump kidny, as
round as an apple.
6. Item. The rump of a Woodcock baked with a paste[?] of Goose Gibblets.
7. Item. A Leg of Lamb larded with Trotters, and roasted till it be as browne
as a Berry.
8. Item. A well made and neatly dressed Neats-foot Pye, full of plums and
spices.
9. Item. A dish a Pigs petty-toes stewed in plum broth.
10. Item. A dish of fresh Lobsters soaked all night in vinegar.
11. Item. Item. A Humble Pye for the sisters, after the brethren are risen.
Q. What Officers have you in your Church discipline?
A. Wee have first the Pastour, secondly the Deacon, and thirdly the Congregation,
and none else at all.
Q. What is the office of the Pastouor?
A. Hee teacheth and instructeth the Congregation; and when any are received
into the fellowship of the Church to walk with him; hee examines them, and
if they be found right, then he dips them.
Q. In what manner doth he teach you?
A. Wee meet in some convenient house, and bee making choyce of the private
place that hee can in the house, hee (after the Deacon hath prayed with
the Congregation, and exhorted them) prayers, and then preacheth an houre
or two, or sometimes three, more or lesse, as he finds his ghests straitened
or enlarged.
Q. Do none come to heare him preach but only those who are in Church-fellowship?
A. Yes, if they be brought in by some friend, that wee may be sure they
come not to spie on us, they may come to heare, or joyne with us in the
Church contribution, but can partake with us no further.
Q. Must the people do whatsoever he binds them to observe?
A. There is an oath, which is administered to all before they be received
into Church-fellowship with us.
Q. Do you swear all before you receive them into communion with you?
A. Yes, else they are not admitted.
Q. Do other Independents do so?
A. No they have not that policie.
Q. What is it that you make them sweare before you admit them to be dipped?
A. 1. We promise and sweare to walk with our Brethren and Sisters (in the
Congregation we are received into) with all watchfullnesse, and tendernesse,
avoyding all jealousies, censurings, and provokings.
2. To do nothing against the Members.
3. Not publickly to discover the failings of our Brethren or Sisters, but
attend an orderly call thereunto.
Q. Hath the Pastor power to receive whom he will into the Congregation?
A. Yes except the Congregation alledge something against the person presented.
Q. In what manner are they dipped when they are received into Church-fellowship?
A. After the persons to be dipped are examined and have declared a sufficient
testimony before the Congregation, and taken the Oath, the Pastor, that
is the Dipper, taketh the person that is to be dipped, and goeth with him
or her whether it be man or woman into the water, and there setting one
hand upon the backe, and the other upon the head, dips the said person quite
over head and eares, and then leadeth him or her
so dipped by the arme out of the water, and presenteth them to the Congregation,
who receive them as Members of the Congregation.
Q. What is the Deacons office among the Anabaptists?
A. To gather the Contributions of the Church, and to take care to see the
Congregation provided for, and if any person of the Congregation be in trouble,
to labour and use all the meanes he can to get him free.
Q. What is the power of the Congregation?
A. Whatsoever is done, is confirmed by the approbation of them, for against
their consent the Pastor or Deacon hath not power to do any thing.
Q. In whose power is the Ordinance of marriage?
A. There are many things required in the ordinance of marriage before it
be done.
Q. What are those things that are required?
A. 1. That the parties be Anabaptists.
2. That both parties be agreed.
3. That they have the consent of the Church. and fourthly, that they be
married according to the way of the Church with which they walke.
Q. Why must both parties be Anabaptists?
A. Because the one being so, it would be of evil consequence to be yoked
with the wicked that have not been rebaptized.
Q. How farre must the parties (to be married) be agreed?
A. To their well liking one of the other without forcing either if them
by violence to marry one that he or she cannot love.
Q. Which is the way of marriage in Anabaptist Churches?
A. Both parties coming before the Congregation they joyne hands and taking
each other for man and wife, promising to live and dye together, and so
kisse and are made man and wife.
Q. And what is your order of buriall for the dead?
A. When any person is dead, we invite our neighbors, and friends, and having
served them with wine and bisket, or diet-bread or sugar palms as all others
do, we go together and when we come to the grave and so we part without
any more ceremony or trouble.
A Briefe Discourse between an Independent and an Anabaptist.
Independent. Of what religion are you?
Anabaptists. I am one of those commonly called Anabaptists. I pray you what
religion are you of?
Indep. I am one of those called Independents.
Anab. I am verie glad I have so seasonably met with you brother, we should
rejoyce on one another; for you know we suffer, and are reproached by the
wicked.
Indep. But it is long of you Anabaptists that we suffer we so as we do,
under many honest meaning men, who know not the difference between us and
you.
Anab. Why, both you and we are Independents, and we desire the libertie
of conscience as you do, though we differ in some things.
Indep. Wee deny to be Independents, though they call us so, because you
and other factious people are so; common people not knowing the difference;
wee do not desire any libertie of conscience further than God's word will
beare, abhorring that false doctrine which you do daily broach among you.
There is more difference between us and you, than between you and the Papists.
Anab. But I pray you tell me why you do charge us so high, for which cause
do you do it?
Indep. You do not only teach to your owne disciples, but print and publish
their blasphemies, and profane, scurrilous, and naughtie things, and the
generalitie of the people take us and you to be all one, and so wee are
hardly thought on for your sakes, though wee abhor, and do utterly disclaim
your wretched and horrible impietie therein.
Anab. Why, but you know that the common people envie you as much as us;
and in that relation you stand in opposition to them just as we do: and
therefore why should there be any difference between us or amongst ourselves?
Indep. I tell you, it is your unjust wayes, your blasphemous tenets, and
base libells, that have given just offence, and most people beleeve wee
are such as you, they not knowing the difference between us, you calling
yourselves Independents, as they call us: and I tell you, we do protest
as much against you, as ever wee did against the Bishops; and therefore
I will leave you, and desire to have no thing to do with you, and so adieu.